Interview with Guillaume Erard, 3rd Dan Aïkikaï

This article is a bit special since that for once, I will be the one to answer questions. I went last June to give a one day course in Besançon (France) as I was invited there by my friend Aurore who used to work with me at Aikidoka Magazine. I had a wonderful time teaching over there and was touched by the fact that seven students from the DAA made the trip to France especially for this occasion.

Aurore Mamet: During your class; whether it was in French or English (laughs), you introduced some of the concepts that are important to you, one of which is "do not speak on the mat". What is so important about keeping silent on the mat?

Guillaume Erard: On the tatami, as far as I am concerned, words only serve as lying to oneself and others by deforming the reality of the movement. It also follows the principles of Chinese whispers; the teacher says something that a student will interpret and then try to explain to his partner because he noticed (rightly or not) a mistake. Then the partner will not necessarily understand this correction and might even be offended by it. It basically complicates what we already feel through the technique. If you add up to that the difficulty of practising with a person that has a different culture or language, it becomes extremely difficult. We don't talk to each other in on the mat in Tokyo so I don't see why we should do differently in France just because we share the same language.

You know, when I come to France, I always present my Irish Aikido book. I find this very useful because people assume that I don't speak French so it saves me all sort of whining or stupid comments on the mat (laughs)! More seriously, I kind of understand that people might be offended when I don't answer them on the tatami but I am convinced that if I give my best to them physically; if we really get pleasure out of practice together; this bad initial impression will be quickly forgotten. Then of course, we can talk about anything and everything at the bar when the class is over but on the mat, words are a hindrance.

Guillaume Erard in Tokyo with Olivier Gaurin

Aurore Mamet: Where do you place yourself into the debate on the efficacy of Aikido?

Guillaume Erard: I have no time and no patience for such discussions; this is not my subject when I am on the tatami.

Now I guess I have to explain myself... Ok, I can only imagine two types of people looking for efficacy; people who want to hurt others, and people who are afraid to be hurt. Thank goodness, in Aikido, we mainly deal with people from the second group.

I think that to be efficient as a fighter, you have to be ready to be hurt or killed during training. Often, we want to work on efficacy but yet, our opponent has to spare our little injuries or weak spots. Rightly so of course because we want to be fit in order to train at the following class. An efficient fighter is different kind of individual, a ruthless one, he will attack by surprise, where it really hurts and probably armed.

In my opinion, only looking for efficacy in Aikido is also a waste of your time given the very small chance that you will ever get attacked, let alone in a situation that will allow you to use your Aikido. If you really are going to be attacked, unless you behave like an idiot in a bar (I have in the past), chances are that you won't see it coming, you won't be facing a single opponent and they will probably have weapons to ensure your full cooperation. Nobody said that life was fair and I don't think that we can ever get prepared to these kinds of unfortunate situations. Given these facts, training for 30 years, 3 times a week, hurting others and being hurt on a regular basis, just to prepare for such an unlikely occurrence seems to me a little shallow if you are not trying to develop something else during all this time.

Guillaume Erard in France with Sergio Azorin

Aikido, like all budo, is an education system. The term budo has been created precisely to distinguish it from the bujutsu. The problem is that in English, they are gathered under the "Martial Art" term; so it can be a bit confusing for the novice to understand the real purposes of such and such discipline. I personally like to look at Aikido from its positive aspect, "to build oneself" rather than the negative "to defend oneself". Technique is for me a tool to build and develop our body as well as the partner's. Of course, to reach that type of realisation, you need a teacher to guide your steps. I was very lucky to meet Philippe Gouttard and even though the external expression of my Aikido has been influenced by many teachers, the core of it got substance and cohesion mainly because of Philippe's influence. In fact, people who know him will probably think that I am ripping him off a lot of his own ideas right now (laughs)! But that is ok, at my level, it is normal to paraphrase my teachers, I have lots of time to develop my own ideas. I would actually like to take this opportunity to thank him and Cyril Lagrasta because without them, I would not be telling you these things, I would not have been to Japan and perhaps, I would not even be practising Aikido, having pleasure on the tatami like today. It is difficult for me to really express how much I am grateful to them.

Guillaume teaching in his Dublin Dojo

Aurore Mamet: On Saturday, you insisted on the fact that a relationship based on trust had to establish itself between Tori and Uke. This implies getting over initial reticence and fear to be injured even if nobody likes to admit doing "sissies Aikido"!

Guillaume Erard: Whatever you do, you will always be somebody else's "dancer".

We have to remove fear. Paranoia and fear are what make us waste our time by placing us in a framework of "if he does that... I do this" or "what if it happened to me?", "what if I was attacked?". In Aikido especially, we are full of paradoxes. We practice the "noble" art of peace but yet, we hurt each other regularly, we aim at dominating a partner and become invincible. We ruin each other's wrists and necks, sometimes causing permanent damage but yet, we are not allowed to bite or punch each others. It just does not make sense to me.

I don't know if I should but I will tell you about a recent occurrence that is sadly typical of this type of practice. I was visiting a dojo run by a very good friend of mine and my sempai for many years. He greeted me as I entered that dojo and told me that unfortunately, I would not have the pleasure to meet his father and fiancée this time because the wedding was planned for the next week. They did not want to take the risk of being injured before the event. This really shocked me, I was speechless. How on earth are they practising to be afraid to be hurt in their own dojo, by their own family? They are really wonderful people and good friends but yet, this "violence" amongst them exists. I still have trouble getting my head around that.

Guillaume Erard in France with Sergio Azorin

Personally, it does not bother me at all to be accused of practising "sissies" Aikido that "does not work in the street". I have practised very hard forms of Aikido in the past, sometimes with ex-army instructors so I like to think that my current choice of practice is an informed one. When a student comes to see me and asks me if what I teach works in the street, I answer that I don't know. In my opinion, if one wants to be efficient in the street, it is in the street that one has to train, not in a dojo. In a word, you do not become good at soccer by playing table tennis. That being said, I always get efficiency remarks from people who never fought in their life. The others rarely comment on this level, they stay or they leave but say nothing; they know.

In my dojo, I see people who come to me with fears and complexes. If they were totally fulfilled in their life, they would hardly waste precious time practising a martial art but instead , they might express their creative desires into something more productive like learning a new language, playing music, painting or other. Therefore, I try to take the fear of "the other" away from my students' hearts through a relationship of trust with me and with the rest of the practitioners. The contact with others is de-dramatised and we change partner as often as possible in order to "touch" everybody and avoid ending up with "favourite" partners. Actually, that is also why I never encourage my friends to take on Aikido. If they fill happy as they are, why should I talk them into doing it?

When we opened the dojo in the centre of Dublin, Cyril and I knew that we would get a lot of curious people turning up for plenty of different reasons, from all social classes, nationalities and physical abilities. The goal that we had imposed to ourselves was to give their chance to every single one of these people, not only to the most talented or the strongest. However, one of our priorities was also not to make training "easier" than in our main dojo. Two years into it, this initial diversity is still there. We frequently have as many women as men in the dojo and unfortunately, I cannot claim that it is due to my good looks (laughs)! The Polish colossus and the petite French girl are still on the tatami, they train like there is no tomorrow and they have an absolute trust in each other.

When people get out of my class, I want them to feel good. It is not much, but it is crucial. Life is difficult enough as it is, professionally, personally, without having to be bullied by an authoritative teacher or rough students in the dojo.

Guillaume Erard at the Gonojukan

Aurore Mamet: You spoke about strength during your class; I guess that you did not refer only to physical strength?

Guillaume Erard: In Aikido, we make efforts and become strong in all aspects of life. This helps us find the courage to go towards others and let them enter our world even if sometimes, some might take advantage of our trust and harm or disappoint us. But anyway, if we have trained hard enough, we should be strong enough to get through these bad experiences and move on. The benefits of an open attitude towards others compensates largely the few deceptions, even if it hurts at times.

At the beginning, we build a wall around ourselves, perfecting social or martial skills that protect us physically and mentally from others. Childhood and adolescence are not easy periods on a social point of view so we learn to protect ourselves. After a while however, we realise that to be really strong is in fact to have the courage to take down this wall that we worked so hard at building and to dare going towards others.

Aurore Mamet: There was also a very stimulating message that you got across: "Dare to make mistakes".

Guillaume Erard: To me, progression is achieved through the making and correcting of mistakes. Past the beginner's luck, it is through trials and errors that you learn, it is obvious. However, in Aikido, we hate making mistakes, especially when a rank or gender difference is involved. On that point, Cyril really helped me a lot to accept the mistakes I was making and to learn from them. I make a ridiculous amount of technical mistakes but I hope that the high ranked instructors make some as well because otherwise, it means that they don't progress anymore.

In the dojo, as opposed to the street, we have the right and the duty to make mistakes, even if we are teaching. We are in a controlled, study environment especially created for that. We have to work too strong, too close, too fast because without this risk taking attitude, we stay within our zone of comfort and we don't progress.

Guillaume Erard

Aurore Mamet: How can we manage our own and other's mistakes?

Guillaume Erard: Alan Ruddock, a very influential teacher for me, told me once that O Sensei used to tell them that Aikido was made to change oneself, not others. The point is that we have to manage our own mistakes, not others. As Uke, I never block my partner's technique, even if it seems flawed to me. In fact, it probably seems flawed to me because I am not used to my partner's way of practising. As a student, it is not up to me to judge and correct my partner's technique but it is up to the teacher. I just lend my body to my partner so that he can perform his best possible technique. Thanks to my skills as a Uke providing me safety and responsiveness, my partner should be able to perform his fastest, sharpest, most precise and strongest technique. We can only go as fast and strong as what our Uke can accept so if we want to improve our keiko, we need top notch Uke. Of course, we also have to adjust our degree of presence, to become heavier and stronger when we practice with somebody more experienced but the idea is the same.

Video of the course in Besançon

When somebody resists me, I never apply the technique until reaching pain. I try, through motion, to correct my technique but not to change technique, because in a pedagogic framework, that would be cheating. Sometimes, I do not succeed and have to accept to lose. Of course, it can be very frustrating but hurting somebody just so I can perform my technique seems to me quite useless. I will always remember Cyril's patient reprimands when at time, I was loosing patience with a partner and was becoming a bit too rough (laughs). Learning to lose is very important but as importantly, we should never give up or go back.

In front of failure or adversity, we just have to train more in order to find the right placement, the right timing that will allow us to succeed in the technique without having to resort to the use of pain, trickery or injury. Unfortunately, we often tend to punish a partner for a mistake that we have made. We consider that he did not fall properly, that he did not move the right way, or perhaps that he resisted, hence putting us in a difficult situation. Of course, the first thing that comes to our mind is to pin him hard on the ground to show him who is right. Exactly like in life, in Aikido, if we don't watch ourselves, we end up resorting to violence whenever we feel that we cannot communicate or express ourselves anymore. This is really what we have to pay attention to.

I always tell my students that when a partner is a bit rough or resists too much, they should get up and re-attack again, and again, and again. Then change turn, do their 4 techniques and then re-attack, until the partner asks for a pause. Not hard, not too fast but continuously and intensely. This is accessible to anybody if we train well enough. Philippe Gouttard once told me that he wanted his students to be able to accept anything from everybody, that is to say anything different, or fast, or rough. This is very much what I want to teach my own students. I was very saddened lately when I and a friend of mine who started Aikido at same time as me went to a seminar of a different federation. Halfway through the class, my friend left. He did not like what he saw. I really could not understand why he did that. Regardless of whether you like what is being shown or not, you should train as hard as you can and certainly not give up. To be honest, I was not too keen on what was being shown either but people worked hard, they looked like they enjoyed it and it was a good enough reason for me to stay. On my side, I had a good sweat, I made my partners move, I worked with people who had a different practice from mine and I had fun. It was therefore a good seminar, but if you flee, you can never figure out...

A few months ago, a student who started Aikido with me went to Japan on his own. Amongst other things, he trained at the Aikikai. He went straight to the regular classes upstairs. Of course, technically, he did what he could but he sweated and made his partners sweat too. When he told me this, I really felt a feeling of pride to be his teacher. The few techniques I had taught him allowed him to go practice 10,000 km away from home, to put himself in a challenging situation and to enjoy himself. To me, this is the only way to tell if you did your job properly as a teacher.

The Group

Aurore Mamet: You gave a very dynamic class today, are you always that exigent towards your students?

Guillaume Erard: I have only one rule when I am on the mat; whether I practice with a 6th Dan in Tokyo or a 6th Kyu in Dijon, one of us has to reach his limit. If I am of a higher grade, I try to push my partner towards his physical, mental or technical limit but of course, without going beyond. If I am less experienced than my partner, I will do my maximum to give my best to my partner, without sparing any effort or energy. I don't think that expecting this from my students is particularly severe. Besides, practitioners are not stupid, if they see you give everything; they will follow the same standard and give their best too. Training intensively physically should not be mistaken with training "sportively". It is not the amount of sweat (or lack of it) that determines whether we are practising a budo or not, it is what we are developing through practice that does.

Aurore Mamet: Thank you Guillaume for the class and the chat, see you soon on the mat!

Guillaume Erard: My pleasure and sorry for the long answers! (laughs)

Photos by Aurore Mamet and Angela Drainville

This article was originally published in French on the Gonojukan's website.

• Article on Guillaume Erard by Léo Tamaki (in French)
• Article on Guillaume Erard by Ivan Bel (in French)