Documentary on Daito-ryu Aiki-jujutsu Takumakai

Thanks to the impressive investigative work carried out by Stanley Pranin, the influence of Daito-ryuAiki-jujutsu in the development of Aikido is now fairly well know and understood. This has led some Aikido practitioners to focus their attention towards learning the Daito-ryu techniques in order to complete what they might regard as a certain lack in nowadays' Aikido teaching. Among these, Olivier Gaurin, a long time student at the AikikaiHombu Dojo and author of several books on Aikido decided to continue in Mr Pranin's footsteps, to learn the ancient techniques and to promote them to the Aikido public. I had been aware of Daito-ryu Aiki-jujutsu for many years through the work of Stanley Pranin but it is Olivier Gaurin who introduced me to the Daito-ryu teachers of the Takumakai school and it wasn't long before we both decided to document our experience, which eventually came under the form of the following documentary.

Introduction to Daito-ryu Aiki-jujutsu with Kobayashi Kiyohiro Sensei (click on "CC" for subtitles)

Transcript of Kobayashi Sensei's interview by Olivier Gaurin.

Olivier Gaurin: Kobayashi Sensei, could you talk to us about the origins of the Takumakai Daito-ryu Aiki-jujutsu?

Kobayashi Kiyohiro: I think we should start by talking about Takuma Sensei. Hisa Takuma Sensei was a student fo Ueshiba Sensei and Takeda Sensei. That being said, Takuma Sensei started under Ueshiba Sensei in what corresponds today to Yoshinkan Aikido. So he started like that as a student of Ueshiba Sensei and trained with him at the Dojo of the Asahi Newspaper. What he taught was not called "Ueshiba-ryu" but nor was it called "Daito-ryu". It was in 1938, maybe before.

Olivier Gaurin: Impressive!

Kobayashi Kiyohiro: Yes, perhaps it was even in 1936 or 1937, I am not too sure. Either ways, Takuma Sensei received his Menkyo-kaiden in 1940 from Sokaku Takeda. It is while Takuma was studying with Ueshiba Sensei that Takeda Sensei came over to Osaka to visit. It seems that he came in order to improve the level of what was taught by Ueshiba Sensei during the morning and noon classes. But when Ueshiba Sensei heard that Takeda Sokaku was on his way, he left in haste for Tokyo without even greeting him. Hisa Sensei therefore stared to train under Sokaku Takeda from that point on.

At that time, the techniques taught daily were all different and they had to remember them nonetheless.It was quite hard to memorise so they started to keep a photographic record in order to rember them. This became the series of technical snapshots called "Soden" which can still be studied today. Actually, Daito-ryu was quite confused and disordered so Takeda Tokimune Senseï [Takeda Sokaku's son] told to his father: "We should classify the techniques a bit better". Ueshiba Sensei for example had indeed been teaching using the syllabus that we know today: "Ikkyo, Nikkyo, Sankyo, Yonkyo..." and if we look at Yoshinkan, it was also these four techniques built and organised in a vertical manner. But Ueshiba's techniques were a bit different so Tokimune said to his father: "Father, we should give back Ikkajo its essence and resume the 118 kihon. Wouldn't it be beneficial? What do you think?" His father answered: "Some of my students have already obtained the Kyoju-dairi, I don't have much more to teach them, isn't it enough? Don't they know enough?" This began the next stage of teaching.

Olivier Gaurin: Sensei, you learnt Aikido at the Aikikai Honbu Dojo right? When was it?

Kobayashi Kiyohiro: I became the student of Hisa Takuma Sensei. And while I was training regularly, I was also a university student so I had to use the situation so I opened an Aikido club. I gathered some students on the one hand, and thanks to a letter of introduction from Hisa Sensei, I could meet Tokimune Sense and go to his seminars. From that I also went to follow classes at the Yoshinkan and at the Aikikai. I got that letter of introduction from Takuma Sensei around March 1966 so that I could meet Ueshiba Sensei, Takuma Sensei's former teacher.

Olivier Gaurin: Was Morihei Ueshiba Sensei still teaching at the time?

Kobayashi Kiyohiro: Yes, he taught the first morning class, but I can't remember which days. And then it was Kisshomaru Sensei. Kisshomaru Sensei was teaching the other morning and evening classes with also the other classes taught by the Uchi-deshi so I could train every day.

Kobayashi Kiyohiro performing Aiki-otoshi on Guillaume Erard

Olivier Gaurin: And now in during your classes in Tokyo, a lot of students come from an Aikido background to study Daito-ryu isn't it? Sensei, what do you think about people coming from Aikido to study Daito-ryu?

Kobayashi Kiyohiro: Yes, as I said before, Hisa Sensei started to learn from Ueshiba Sensei and he later became a student of Takeda Senseï. There is no incompatibility. Whether they are Ueshiba's or Takeda's techniques, there is no profound disagreement because very naturally, Daito-ryu techniques evolve into Aikido techniques. For these Sensei, there is no doubt that Daito-ryu led to Aikido. For me it was the same, in Tokyo, because I had obtained an introduction letter to train with Ueshiba Sensei and Shioda Sensei, I could train both morning classes and the evening class at the Honbu Dojo, and the the lunch class at the Yoshinkan.

Olivier Gaurin: Really ? Who was teaching at the Yoshinkan ?

Kobayashi Kiyohiro: It was Shioda Sensei's students, mister Kushida and Inoue. But Shioda Sensei did not teach any-more, I was too important. There were also other black belt instructors whose names I have forgotten. This is where I learnt. In fact, Yoshinkan techniques really looked like Hisa Takuma Sensei's techniques. The techniques taught at the Asahi newspaper were conform to those taught in Tokyo at the Yoshinkan Iidabashi dojo. At the Aikikai however, it was a bit different.

While I was a student in Osaka, I had set-up an Aikido club, part of an organisation which was in fact a grouping of several universities of Osaka. So these Kansai universities called us to meet us as they wanted to get introduced to a permanent Sensei. Takuma Hisa had been a sumotori and his knees were bad so he could not take that function. I also thought that once I graduated, Daito-ryu might disappear from the university, so I thought that perhaps it was best to affiliate the club with Ueshiba since there was already an Aikido federation at that time. So I suggested that to Takuma Hisa Sensei and he accepted.The technical director for Kansai was Kisshomaru Sensei but the club was still under the supervision of Takuma Sensei. It is Takuma Sensei who asked Kobayashi Hirokazu Sensei to be the Aikikai person in charge of the club since Kobayashi had been a close student of Takuma in the past. So that is how everything got sorted. The club became an Aikido club and everybody switched from Daito-ryu to Aikido.

Personally, I was not too happy about only doing Aikido and that is why I continued to do both Daito-ryu and Aikido at the dojos which I mentioned earlier.

Olivier Gaurin: Kobayashi Sensei, you now come every month from Osaka to teach in Tokyo, how did you start teaching Daito-ryu there?

Kobayashi Kiyohiro: I have former students there, including Kawabe Takeshi Sensei, he wanted to practice Daito-ryu in Tokyo so he asked me if I wanted to help. In fact, he only taught three or four times, I was really busy so I took over from that point.

Olivier Gaurin: What do you think about the Tokyo group?

Kobayashi Kiyohiro: It is quite easy in Tokyo. Once students grasp the meaning I want to give to my techniques, it becomes easier. And because I am not very good, although I did learn a lot in Hokkaïdo, it is good to think about passing on to future generations.

Olivier Gaurin: Thank you very much Sensei.

Kobayashi Kiyohiro: You are welcome.

• My article about my first Daito-ryu Aiki-jujutsu class
• Section on Daito-ryu Aiki-jujutsu on Olivier Gaurin's official website
• Article on Hisa Takuma by Stanley Pranin
• The website of the Takumakai association
• The Finish branch of the Takumakai (the most active Daito-Ryu group outside of Japan)